Boards From China

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bb30's picture
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Re: [Art4Peace] Boards From China

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ART4PIECE states  "the time honored, soulful art of surfboards hand-crafted by true ARTISTS, who have devoted their lives to passing along their skill, wisdom and stoke "

Where is the line in the sand for you to loose respect for the "artists" you describe above?

Do they earn your respect if they have a surf tech model, board works, NSP, firewire or their own label made in Asia? Lets face the facts, the most experienced, most respected craftsman on this site are involved very directly in manufacturing, supplying or selling boards made in Asia. Wisdom and stoke will go away if you keep up with the Asia hate.

I once again argue that it is pure hateful racism involved here. Solosurfers post I am in agreement with about the Government of China versus the people.  Lets just compare craftsman to craftsman. Not where they are from, or what their  benefit and salary package is.  A female glasser and a female sander/polisher from Asia against anyone on this site. You can't deny that after glassing literally thousands of boards you become an efficient, skillful competent glasser.  It is just a procedure that arguably has some artistic characteristics. Skill and wisdom  sounds like experience to me.  Stoke??? I guess if I was getting paid for my work I would be stoked.

I again say it is racism because your argument is against one nationality, the Chinese(even though boards are made in Vietnam,Thailand also) . If you hated all boards made outside of your area/region/continent then I would say your isolationist views would be just that and nothing else. 

The premise of "sweatshop" conditions is hogwash. Can you imagine training up someone to be a efficient and competent in board manufacturing and harming them so they die or quit and now you have to train someone else? It makes no logical sense and I am starting to yawn again.

Give the South African surfer a break. He is trying to bring the joy of surfing to some beginners on a low budget. Talk about bringing the stoke!!!!!!

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Re: [Art4Peace] Boards From China

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Art4Peace wrote:

 Surfing lineups around the world are ALREADY too crowded with people who are ignorant of surfing's history, traditions, and etiquette... and it would appear that you fit this description as well.

Ha...Yes..too crowded, but thats the breaks when you make something a business. Even the one man show is a business and it requires some degree of self promotion.  As for Surfing's histories, tradtions, etiquette? Whose version? Much of that junk is just B.S. also. Some of us were around when the so called history was being written and it sured seemed different than we all read in the magazines. 

For those who defended China pop-outs on this thread, racism has NOTHING to do with the objections most of us have to this sweatshop undercutting of craftsmanship that's being driven by pure greed.

I spoke out against it for the longest time, but the fact is, in surfing, China doesn't have the market cornered on greed. I agree about that country over all with regards to trade, but it's Americans who are picky, label and price driven.  If the folks promoting them and selling them were honest about where they were made they are just another product. Most folks I know that are seasoned surfers already have their group of shapers or shops they buy their boards from. China hasn't had time to be half as dishonest as almost 80% of all the so called local surf businesses.  

Mass production of pop-out boards in Asia  - along with the havoc being wrought by entities such as Wal-Mart, and the outsourcing of US jobs in general by other greedy corporations - is destroying our quality of life,  our economy, the environment, and the world.

Agree nationally, but China didn't start mass production of surfboards...go talk to Rusty, Channel Islands and numerous large surf shops. 

Asian pop-outs are a shortsighted, empty, ruthless trend that threatens to destroy a cornerstone of the surfing culture : the time honored, soulful art of surfboards hand-crafted by true ARTISTS, who have devoted their lives to passing along their skill, wisdom and stoke .

Some are true artist that have passed on stoke.  Too many builders and shop owners ...no. Many are egotistical piss poor business folk who have made their own beds.  The cream of the crop is great, helpful, interesting and a small group.  

Since you're a "newb" to surfing, and don't want to pay what is actually a very fair price for a quality NEW board made with integrity by a true craftsman, here's an honorable alternative: learn to surf on a quality, handcrafted USED board from your local surf shop. You can save money and still learn to appreciate quality. And while you're at it, learn about surfing's history, culture, and traditions. You owe it to yourself and everyone else who surfs near you.

But the problem is...too many are not made iwth integrity or true craftsmanship. Do I need to remind you of the quality of many of the surfboards being sold in mass in shops all around the world until Asia came into the picture and Clark closed? There was little control over who could get into the business and claim to be a shaper. Clark would sell to anyone. Business account or not and surfers would buy almost anything from certain shops, with certain labels with a pointed nose and turned rails.  If you want to talk about quality...you are certainly not talking about the majority of this business over the last few years.  I know shapers who do all their own work from start to finish and even design their own blanks while others turn them over to a glass factory to get behind the big boys and many times  come out with simple mistakes they refuse to make right or bitch about.  I don't even know the industry you are attempting to describe.  

Like I said, the good shapers will always get my support and some of the rest are struggling because China is starting to get their quality and shapes up and force some of them to start actually attempting to live up to their hype and higher prices.   You want to pay $685 for a clear Channel Islands and say it's somehow a  different mass produced machined board than mass produced China board..be my guest.  I really dislike how the Asian surfboards have been marketed for the most part, but I can't look in the mirror and say some of them are made of bad quality because it's just not the truth.

As for Soul, traditions and etc.  There are so many definitions for those words now its hard to keep up.  I'll just take the folks I like, who are honest and are great and creative craftsmen. 

The killers in high places say their prayers out loud

lcc
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Re: [ProfJannes] Boards From China

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"The fiction that you have regarding "pop outs"( which most asian
surfboards are not) seem to be projections of the haters of Asia on this
site. The quality, soulfulness, environmental compliance and
desirability is up to you I guess. .... Asia hate make me
yawn. Thank you for your apology and sentiment in regards to my
daughter, friends, and wonderful Chinese board builders in Hawaii"

As far as I am concerned Burton Surfboards, formerly Channel Islands surfboards, makes pop-outs as well.  They fired/ran off all the shapers, brought in non-surfing grunts to run the production line for half the $$, and keep the warehouse stacked with a thousand boards in the most popular flavors.

The key word here is production, and Swaylocks is a custom surfboard forum.  Want a container load of surfboards off-shore, go to Alibaba.com, generate an RFP,  come to a pricing agreement, get your container load of pop-outs.  That process has nothing to do with the exchange of custom shaping ideas and custom surfboard culture.  So if folks on this forum choose to scoff at the concept, or choose to like a T-shirt you find offensive, you can choose as well to be offended, over-reactionary and accuse us of racism.  And that's the beauty of living/posting in a democracy - we are all entitled to express our opinion regardless.

And you're welcome for my offering an apology for your daughter, even though the only insult to her was self-percieved.   As a father and grandfather, I am very protective of my own girls.  Apologies not intended nor needed for friends and shapers in HI, however, as they have only been insulted by your imagination.

And just for an FYI, I was raised for 5 years of my childhood in Japan, worked at Chinese Hospital in San Francisco as one of 4 Caucasians in the entire hospital, did business in Singapore, and when I periodically return to HI, I ride an Arakawa - a custom shaped one, of course.

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Re: [lcc] Boards From China

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In my point of view, what's is wrong is that China does an unfair competition. Any country can export cheap doing what China does.


I would like to see Yuan currency free , the workers fairly payed and not Children on the factory floor.


That is challenge to who believe China is clever. Do the things right and let's see.... Fair play, I only ask this.


sorry about my english...Brazilian from Garopaba

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Re: [lcc] Boards From China

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Yawn....

I wasn't just directing comments to you but to all the bigoted responses.

Actually I was not offended, just trying to make a point. She is Half Hawaiian/half Chinese and very proud.

Next time you come over wear the shirt and lets see what happens.

Just because I go to mcdonalds it doesn't make me a hamburger.

Glad you have a custom Arakawa, he needs the money too.  Now when you say custom was it pre-shaped by machine? Was it glassed in the factory that is the number 1 Hawaii importer of Asian made boards??? Just think, you possibly support what you most despise with your purchase.

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Re: [ProfJannes] Boards From China

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Some very well thought out comments on this thread.....racism will always enter a heated discussion involving powerful countries. especially if you feel  your race has been dissed; most of us arenʻt extremely racist....just a little...come on admit it...just a little..anyway the bigger issue driving this Chinese production is American greed; we are the ones who set the whole thing in motion and are reaping most of the benefits money wise;[ by we I mean the shrewd businessman]; the laugh will be when the Chinese start calling the shots, cornering the market and dictating price and squeezing the balls of Americans. Just like us, they want more of everything; we wrote the book, they are reading it and beginning to live the life; us Americans gotta regroup and come up with some new and better moves and Swaylocks CAN help; good ideas will flow.....racism will be forgotten!!!

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Re: [Alamoana] Boards From China

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Alamoana wrote:

Some very well thought out comments on this thread.....racism will always enter a heated discussion involving powerful countries. especially if you feel  your race has been dissed; most of us arenʻt extremely racist....just a little...come on admit it...just a little..anyway the bigger issue driving this Chinese production is American greed; we are the ones who set the whole thing in motion and are reaping most of the benefits money wise;[ by we I mean the shrewd businessman]; the laugh will be when the Chinese start calling the shots, cornering the market and dictating price and squeezing the balls of Americans. Just like us, they want more of everything; we wrote the book, they are reading it and beginning to live the life; us Americans gotta regroup and come up with some new and better moves and Swaylocks CAN help; good ideas will flow.....racism will be forgotten!!!

The bottom line is the really magic stuff we all love about the boards and other things surrounding surfing is that 100% of those great things are done by 25% of those in the business. The rest is just business...devoid of any real attachment to the surf.   Like someone said, I at least want to know the person who makes the boards I ride can relate. I don't care if they are the biggest ripper, but competent yes.   If all you want to do is turn them for profit or place yourself in the leader board of the magazines, popularity and big bucks....Asian makes sense and local board builders do not.  

Most good local board builders, shop owners and other surf related companies still don't have much of a problem with customers.  Most good shapers I know have work backed up. So where is China hurting them.  It actually makes it way easier since before it was the local ripper up the street that decided he was going to be a shaper in under five years, who could get his boards into the stores because he sold the worthless junk for $200 wholesale. About what China is doing in bulk now..with much better quality.  When China is able to do customs orders door to door for $250 for similar quality as Lost, Rusty and etc are doing...things will get harry for the average shaper doing it the old way and likely still not change for the really good ones with solid reputations. 

I seriously doubt Bill Barnfield will suffer with his orders because of China though some local moderately skilled and more limited shaper might.

The killers in high places say their prayers out loud

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Re: [solosurfer] Boards From China

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"I seriously doubt Bill Barnfield will suffer with his orders because of China though some local moderately skilled and more limited shaper might."

He has "pop outs" in his shop for sale.  Santa cruz brand/ firewire and they are nice boards and at a reasonable price. Not sure of the markup.

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Re: [ProfJannes] Boards From China

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I think a more accurate phrase to capture the sentiment would be "My shaper surfs."

I think the surfer vs non-surfer angle is more relevant to the perceptions of most people here than racism as such.  The bias against the asian production facilities has more to do with the idea that there's nobody there who is about anything *other* than the the money.  The perception is that those employees wouldn't care any more or any less if they were making washing machines.  Now one could argue that the average production shop in a surftown is pretty mercenary, too, and maybe they are.    But at least some of those employees are relating what they do on the clock with what they do on their own time as surfers - and I think many surfers appreciate that.  

It's not all that relevant to me and mine because I'll always be able to hack out my own boards using domestic materials.   The people who buy shop boards can enjoy those for what they are but they have no say in tweaking those shapes or trying any new combinations.  The whole thing about custom boards is having the control and the freedom to try new things and put your own name under the glass.  

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Re: [ProfJannes] Boards From China

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It's been true since the 60's and it still holds true today;


POPOUTS & SURFBOARDS "SHAPED" BY NON-SURFERS ARE FOR KOOKS.


Racist? Really?


 Google Image Search, where I found the picture, seems to indicate the entire world is racist. 



 People who are citizens of Hawaii with Chinese surnames (or otherwise) are Americans BTW.   

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Re: [unclegrumpy] Boards From China

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unclegrumpy wrote:

POPOUTS & SURFBOARDS "SHAPED" BY NON-SURFERS ARE FOR KOOKS.

Sums the whole thing up quite well, for me.

I'd never dream of buying a board shaped by a non surfer.

I haven't bought an off-the-rack board since 1972.

I wish I didn't have to log in twice, every time I log in

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Re: [unclegrumpy] Boards From China

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Google "White Supremacist".    

So.....if it's on google it is not racist???

Wear that shirt to any public or private school in Hawaii and you would be asked to take it off or be suspended.

Wear it to work(federal or state job) and you would be in HR getting counseled.

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