Time to shape my Bonzer

i tell ya mick had billy hamilton do one he should have some info

super light blank what  one           do you want a yellow i got oneif you want

Everytime I see that diagram I always fell obliged to chime in and note that the Campbell brothers overlap the front and back runners by 1/2".  That is, the trailing edge of the front fin and the leading edge of the rear fin overlap.

Cant is 18 degrees on runners.  And just as important is the single to double concaves in a kind of hour glass shape.

great stuff guys !

  shipman did a couple of BEAUTIES , which he posted here years ago ...stingray did the sprays ? [or was it moonlight glassing? i forget?]

  hopefully the search mechanism here at sways still works for that kind of stuff ?

  i can't WAIT to see the progress on these boards guys ! [if you ever want to see how NOT to do it , search 'benzer' by some whacker called something ridickulous like "chipfish61" or sumtin' ..... yeegads , what was he THINKING ??[or not , that was probably the problem !hahahhhhh]

  cheers

   ben  [formerly chipfish61]

Yorky, thats going to be a HPSBZ - High Performance Short Bonzer!

I do admire you sense of self estimation, you have the distinction of having made tour boards for WCT surfer Kieren Perrow and former WCT star Danny Wills, but you aren't afraid to ask the boys on Swaylocks for help when it comes to bonzers.

I just looked at your slimline dimensions and thought up the name - it would be great if you could get it to work to your satisfaction and offer it in Japan - they are fairly small chaps, it might suit them.

I had a look at the shelter board you gave the link to and I see what you mean by the pic giving an impression of high tail rocker, with low entry plus flip - but thats just a pic and I'm hopeless at assessing board rocker even looking at it in real life, I'm lost without a rocker stick. I know nothing about bonzers, the only alternative modern fin setup that I've liked was the widowmaker and that was on a Takayama egg - great in pt break.

are you thinking of using glassed on or boxed fins for the front ones?

Hey Yorky

Just saw this thread and will get you the fin measurements from my Bonzer , the one Billy Hamilton shaped for me. It's a 6'6" round pin so maybe of no immediate use . Been up to my arse in work and no time for Swaying let alone finishing my board but have been taking some shots and will post them as Huie suggested when I'm done. 

Here's another 6'6" rnd pin Bill did a while back. Cant on this one was 14 deg from memory.

Here's another mate's board it's a 7'0" swallow with a different concaves and fin setup.

Cheers

Mooneemick

...hello,

you re a shaper, boardbuilder, designer or a hacker?

man, do you not know how to figurate out the dims?

is not come here and in a "few" seconds want everything down

things that take some research and surfing all over some designs and some years

to arrive at nice dims and prescriptions to the customers

at least is what I did and what a professional who cares about boards design and customers does...

I spend couple of years researching, etc before my first attempt to this design

also I changed in some cases, some features and checked directly with the source theyselves...

I did and do bonzer types in weekly monthly basis from the lasts years in shortboards, eggs, longb and some semiguns.

seems most do not understand the concept behind

sorry for previous words but I needed to say that

well,

first 14º is NOT the way to go

25º is NOT the way to go

no matter the final planshape

second, the back side runners DO NOT overlap 1/2 the front ones as a rule.

3, no matter if you go down in length; for ex: 5 5´´, you ll go with a 6 main fin

in some riders like teenagers women or children or wanting a total loose board in tiny surf

you can go with a 5 1/2 but is not overall good

4, bonzers like toobs or hollow waves, so keep in mind that to final planshape (you asking for rocker...)

hey MrJ

its always like this, it doesn't matter if you've shaped 1000s or 1 board, if you ask a question you get bashed its a shame!

Hey Reverb

I think Yorky is doing as you suggested , researching the design principles to gain knowledge.

Could you tell us what your take is on the setup of the side runners , seems like you have done a few.

My board is a 6'6" round pin with a 14 7/8" tail , got any suggestions on placement.

Cheers

Mooneemick

ok Aussie fellas,

easy a bit...

one of the guys that say that I always trying to take down etc is not true

most of my post are to provide help to the newbie or backyarder

check em out then let me know if Im not talking true...

-but for a guy like MrJ say a pro one

that not take the labor seriously and seems that only know how to shape 1 type of board...well

I dunno.

in the other comment I put specs that are very important

you only needs to follow the lines of the intended planshape.

in this comment first picture

you see a semigun with the cluster forward as most semis

may be in the pict looks more forward than really is..

second pict shows the srunners only and main channels blended with the tail rocker in a modern mini egg

next its me riding a bonzer type design

...Entity, may be we have here a virtual misunderstanding.

ask something to know more, is the way

for ex. just few minutes ago I ask something to MD

but the difference was what Im asking; Im not asking for trade secrets or too much info that belongs to some special shop or like that

or ask ALL and not have the experience to figurate out the rest or dont have a clue about general design concepts etc

I see these in this machined shapers world from around 10 years ago

so if some one claims that is a pro, have clientele, customers, team, etc

I expect a bit more.

by the way, the 5 fin bonzer is a mid - late 80s design and also had a tweak in early 90s

so is not an early 70s like the 3 finned ones

I've got some ideas

I don't actually have any Bonzer knowledge I'm just having fun speculating based on riding a canard fin experiment I once messed with and normal boards. I'm also thinking that this has to be a HP board potentially suitable for the Japan smaller wave market.

1. on tri fins the shorter the board the further back the fins are - maybe same applies to a HPSBZ?

2. on tri fins the shorter the board the closer the gap between front and rear - try the same on a HPSBZ

3. I once made myself a convertible twinzer/twinny type board - it had overlap between front and rear - it had more drive in twinzer mode but free-falling down the line it felt like the brakes were applied! therefore try no overlap.

4. WWMark once produced a wonderful twinzer type experiment with 4-way fully adjustible fins - he found that the more he canted the front fins relative to the rear the better it was - therefore try the fronts more canted than the rear.

when it comes to bonzers I don't know what I am talking about, and its a bit laughable that I think I might know better than the Campbell bros, on the other hand nothing ventured nothing gained. Just brainstorming ideas Yorky

pics below illustrate my points, but as I said I don't know what I am talking about

Speculative HP compressed bonzer cluster

Speculative HP dual cant bonzer

I guess you've already got it shaped but FWIW here's my 2 cents.

Since the deep concaves are concentrated in a relatively short area, you've got to have a good bend at the rail. You are very familiar with this from shaping normal shortboards, the bonzer just emphasizes it. A lot of volume is taken out of the tail from the bottom side, so plan tail foil accordingly. The concave runout may dictate planshape a little, which is just fine and sorta like the way clinker bottom (deep channels) play into outline.

The boards are barrel monsters. When the 5-fin versions were brand new, late 80s, I got to see Davey Miller at Backdoor just going nuts! Anybody else who got to see what he did in that period will back me up. Insanity...

btw, I think reverb means well and he didn't know that yorky is an experienced and talented shaper. reverb's also posting in a second language, which can create problems. reverb's work shows that he knows what he's talking about and he learned it all the old, pre-internet way. When I see the range of unusual designs he does, the quality of his color and finish work, and the trippy fins, it makes me think he's sort of a South American version of Jim Phillips.

Jeff, thats great feedback on how your different fin experiences worked. Fins are strange things - I haven't been able to come up with any rule on fin size - sometimes a board works well with small fins and sometimes a board works well with big fins.

I hope that one day you do get to produce the compressed bonzer fin cluster and report back - swaylocks is vicarious enjoyment for me nowadays - I don't make boards as a hobbyist anymore. Here is WWMark's dual cant quad which I mentioned earlier. He said it worked better with the extra cant for the front fins



http://www2.swaylocks.com/node/1024049

Hey Yorky 

I know exactly what you mean about time restraints..........still I'm making my own side runners carbon / bamboo combo.

Maybe I should have read the " Don't Make Your Own Fins " thread again.

Are you doing glass on ? If not what fin system are you going with ?

Cheers

Mooneemick