What exactly is a displacement hull?

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What exactly is a displacement hull?

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 I am new to Swaylocks and I am trying to find more information on what exactly a displacement hull is and how it works, maybe with pictures/diagrams to illustrate the concepts. Can anyone please point me in the right direction? I have searhed in the forum and on the net, but I am struggling to find what I am looking for!  Thanks and regards!

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Re: [hansman] What exactly is a displacement hull?

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http://www.liddlesurfboards.com/hulldiscussion.html

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Re: [afoaf] What exactly is a displacement hull?

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Thanks for that! I had had a look at this website before I posted but didn't find what I was after on there. It talks about history and evolution but does not help me with the visualization of how it actually looks and works (especially since I have never seen one "in the flesh"). I am hoping to find something with various angles with descriptions? I am not a shaper, just a very avid and long-time surfer (albeit landlocked at the moment andf surfing the net all the time!)

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Re: [hansman] What exactly is a displacement hull?

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...to see picts and see what other hull riders are saying, go to the "post your hull second thread" or like that

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OK, I have been onto  "post your hull second thread" and I'm trowling my way through it - very interesting pics and great examples of craftsmanship, but still looking for some explanation as to what makes these boards as magic as  people say. What I got so far is:

  • S-deck - didn't make sense until I saw it on some of the pics - very thin in the tail, then quite a bit of volume, then thinner again, and then the kick of the nose - hey presto, S-deck (duh) - what is the function of that extra volume just under or in front of the surfer's back foot? More flotation? If it wasn't for this bit of extra foam it seems that it would have a pretty normal deck, just with a very thin, almost gunnish tail?
  • the bottoms look pretty flat and wide. Are concaves used in the tail (couldn't see yet)
  • the rails look like those on an old Whitmore I have back home from the early to mid 60s - very "blady" - is that for the board/hull to penetrate the wave face?
  • the bottom deck also seems rounded like on an old longboard.
  • the boards look very much like mini-mal funboards in shape. Is this the best shape to use with a hull?

Right, I'm gonna go search some more!

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Re: [hansman] What exactly is a displacement hull?

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"The boards look very much like mini-mal funboards in shape".

 

I read that and nearly sprayed my coffee I was drinking over my laptop.

The Hullophiles are no doubt gathering a lynching party for you.

:-)

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Re: [cuttlefish] What exactly is a displacement hull?

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To all Hullophiles, no offense was meant by my "mini-mal " comment! What I meant was if you placed the board down on its tail, deck facing forward and you looked at the outline of the board. You have to admit that doesn't exactly look like a "modern" Brewer derived outline. The boards are wider and have got rounder noses (mind the coffee) and seem almost "old-school". I understand that this type of design became overshadowed by the Brewer inspired shapes with down-rails that were designed in Hawaii in terms of popularity, and how these are two different ways/styles of riding waves.

Is there animosity or resentment from "hull" supporters about this? Or are they just happy and glad to be part of a minority group of enwisened wave riders who know that they have got it right and all the other guys on mainstream boards are grappling around in the dark?

Thanks for all the responses so far! Swaylocks rules!!!!!

(Ps: I'm stoked I don't have your laptop's demise on my conscience - hehe).

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Re: [hansman] What exactly is a displacement hull?

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There is no animosity...only a joke. The outlines are refined versions of Australian short boards brought here in the late 60's. The bottoms are refined versions of mid 60's long boards and late 60's v-bottoms and Greenough's flex kneeboards from the 60's. Refined over 45 years into something that is now quite unique. All of the elements are used to provide the rider with a board that trims well and makes long radius turns using the rail as much as the fin. But most importantly, the design gives the rider a feel that just doesn't happen on other boards. And that's why most hullers keep coming back.

 

There are better pictures of S-decks and rails in the old "show me your hulls" thread. Not sure if all the photos are still there. The big problem is that you really can't get a feel for the whole deal without seeing one in person. All the elements are blended so well, the design seems quite simple. But if you have one in front of you and you study it very closely, you'll see how complex the board really is.

 

Oh, on the classic "hull" there are no concaves...but fortunately, you can get versions of them with concaves and decide for yourself whether that adds or detracts from the design.

 

 

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Re: [LeeV] What exactly is a displacement hull?

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No worries, my wife is always telling me that I take life too seriously, to which I should answer: "I'm just not surfing enough!"

I am starting to get it now, but I agree that I won't really get it until I have seen one and tried to ride it.

I sent an e-mail to Liddle Surfboards and got some info back from there too.

I am in the UK at the moment and here a hull goes for £500. I think the Liddle ones or something similar from the States would be around that or more if you factor in freight.

I have stood in the shaping bay with my shaper before and we have taken a shape he did for me and come up with something completely new - 3 different rail templates for one board. He is quite open minded (which means you sometimes don't get the board you've ordered!) but then I have also had some amazing boards off him. (Heard this one: if you are too open-minded your brain will fall out)

I will speak to him and ask him what he knows about hulls. I think I asked him years ago but the response was not encouraging at the time.

I have not shaped a board myself before and so I have to trust my shaper to interpret my ideas and give me the feeling I'm looking for. I once asked him for a board and gave him a string of dimensions - he just looked at me and said: "You don't know what you are talking about." I was not offended but took it as positive criticism and that was when my special boards started coming through from him. He has made my brother some boards he really didn't like - their personalities clash!

I think the hull phenomenon never really took a hold in South Africa and so we have no real concept of it. As I mentioned before there are some aspects of it in a 60s log I have, but in what I've seen and surfed you go from logs to sort of shorter v-tailed logs (only seen one) to the single fin pins, etc, etc..... and today you have just mainstream boards shaped there.

Swaylocks is providing me with the inspiration and ideas and gumption to go back home and buck the trends a bit more and hopefullyfind some even more unique places on the wave face...

I tell you what, this is one hell of a website!!!! I had just looked at it before but never got stuck in  - now I don't sit down in front of the computer anymore and get bored - there's just so much knowledge here and people are so friendly and above all willing to share - absolutely amazing and uplifting in our medern me, me, me times!

Aloha for now

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OK, I'll stop going on about how amazing this site is (well, I'll try!)

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Re: [LeeV] What exactly is a displacement hull?

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LeeV wrote:

There is no animosity...only a joke. The outlines are refined versions of Australian short boards brought here in the late 60's. The bottoms are refined versions of mid 60's long boards and late 60's v-bottoms and Greenough's flex kneeboards from the 60's. Refined over 45 years into something that is now quite unique. All of the elements are used to provide the rider with a board that trims well and makes long radius turns using the rail as much as the fin. But most importantly, the design gives the rider a feel that just doesn't happen on other boards. And that's why most hullers keep coming back.

 

There are better pictures of S-decks and rails in the old "show me your hulls" thread. Not sure if all the photos are still there. The big problem is that you really can't get a feel for the whole deal without seeing one in person. All the elements are blended so well, the design seems quite simple. But if you have one in front of you and you study it very closely, you'll see how complex the board really is.

 

Oh, on the classic "hull" there are no concaves...but fortunately, you can get versions of them with concaves and decide for yourself whether that adds or detracts from the design.

 

 

This is one of the first cut down longboard designs that John Bradbury did. It fits your explanation well. Everything but the fin is in original condition. JB, being featured at the Sacred Craft shape off this year in Ventura, was onto the progression early on. This one was pulled out of the back of somebody’s car and given to a friend as a gift for passing on the stoke and knowledge.

 

Anyway, it’s been posted before and here it is again. Early Creative Freedom Lam.

 

 

http://www.surfboardshow.com/shape-off.html

 IMG_0045-1.jpg picture by easternpacific

IMG_0049-1.jpg picture by easternpacific

IMG_0046-1.jpg picture by easternpacific

 

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Re: [hansman] What exactly is a displacement hull?

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Mike?

 

 

 

 

(j/k)

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Re: [hansman] What exactly is a displacement hull?

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So glad you asked. As a recent recipient of Naval Architecture of Planing Hulls I am now an instant expert in all matters of displacement, even though it's not mentioned much in the book so far. First of all planing. Planing is when the craft skims over the surface of the water. Displacement is when the craft ploughs it's way through the water, very much like the hull of a boat. Like it or not, pretty much all surfboards displace water to some extent. If you know of a surfboard that doesn't displace to some extent, please let me know, I'd very much like to hear from you.

Getting back to displacement on a boat you could imagine how well a hull with a square front, that sits below the waterline would make it's way through the water. Pretty damn terribly to say the least. Replace the front of the boat with the hull shape you see on most boats (v shape) and the boat will push it's way through the water much better. Remember not many boats sit on the surface of the water.

Most sit below the waterline, mainly because of the weight bearing down on them. With enough speed however, the right boat (say a speedboat) can plane across the surface of the water, but you need a fair bit of speed and the right hull shape, (not to mention a boat that is light enough) to be able to do this. 

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Re: [deanbonkovich] What exactly is a displacement hull?

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Hi Dean -

Absolutely correct... surfboards are a combination of displacement and planing hull. 

To the rest -

How else might one explain the fact that a board that doesn't float worth a damn when sitting in the lineup suddenly supports one's weight when at speed and skimming?  It's planing and yes, "displacement hull" surfboards do it too.  

Witness the portion of the board still below the waterline?  That's actual displacement and all boards do that as well.

I know there is safety in numbers and having the same kind of board as all your friends but to drink the kool-aid and proclaim a certain type of board to be one or the other is a demonstration of lack of understanding or a refusal to adopt accepted terminology.  For those still locked in their little world of what is and isn't, read that book to which Dean refers. 

Surfboards are all about personal preference and different strokes.  Fact is, there are lots of boards that work and on any given day, any one of them might be "magic" to the right rider. 

 

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Re: [johnmellor] What exactly is a displacement hull?

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There's some damn good marketers out there...

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Re: [deanbonkovich] What exactly is a displacement hull?

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Thanks for all the feedback!

I ride the boards I ride as before I didn't know any better.

In South Africa I have never heard mention of a displacement hull, let alone ever seen one or ridden one. I think our surfers and shapers/designers just ran with what was popular. This doesn't mean that there are no hulls in SA, just don't know of any.

I have always ridden ANY board I could lay my hands on, big or small, fat or thin. I don't care much for what my surfing looks like, what interests me is what it feels like and through this to where it transcends me. I don't care much for organised religious activities, I find my spiritual sustenance in the water on a wave, reconnecting with the primordal ooze from which we collectively crawled out of just over 500 million years ago (give or take a few million years, with dating being the science it is).

Out of all my surfing friends from over the years, one of them has taken to surfing fishes, but still balks at the idea of riding longboards in summer, even though he lives and surfs in Wales, UK! I don't know of any that ride a log with any regularity, it's just not cool! Most of them will probably start moving on to "big boy boards" soon or maybe the odd mini-mal or mal, but that will probably be it. I do not think that they are in search of newer surfing experiences that are 'more' or deeper, rather, they want to hang on to what was, the way they used to be able to surf when they were younger and more physically able.

I had pretty much made my mind up about hulls when I read about them the first time in a journal or path a few years ago, but as I get to surf much less than I would like to (should!) it has been a very gradual process. I like the saying that good things come to those that wait, especially when applied to  surfing. You can paddle out with the intention of catching loads of waves and ripping it up and psyche up with some heavy metal tunes or punk or whatever gets you super amped, and you could then paddle out and rip it up, but more often than not you will just end up frustrated and having p....d the rest of the crowd off too. OR, you look at the ocean, time the sets, look at the way the waves are breaking, do some mind-surfing, listen to some chilled tunes, paddle out, find a spot and wait for the waves to come your way, as they will invariably do. You glide, not scramble, into the waves, and instinctively pick a line, maybe fitting in the odd turn, definitely looking to be in the hollowest part of the wave at exactly the right time and trimming on the right line and then pull out with a smile on your face, grinning to the core of your being (like the cartoon on "Sprout" where he ends up drawing fart face). In this way riding a wave, picking a pleasing line through a tricky and challenging situation becomes a metaphor for life.....

Different boards spring from different attitudes and lead to different experiences.... I feel I'm ready for the next step....... to hull or not to hull, that was the question....

My options at the moment are to get a hull here in the UK or from one of the originals or find out what I can, speak to my shaper back home and see what he comes up with. The last option makes the most financial sense as I have to be able to justify to myself and wife and family how much I spend on surfing equipment, but then again he is a traditionalist, albeit open to new ideas and experimentation. Last time I saw him his favourite board was a Joel Tudor 6'6", which looked weird at the time but makes more sense now and could have been a bit of a hull? Problem is I end up picking up the tab for whatever he comes up with. I think that getting a UK shaped board or eg. Liddle will probably come down to about the same cost and at least double that of a South African board.

Common sense tells me that I should get a board from the person with the most experience, so at the moment I am thinking of getting a Liddle.

Any advice? How difficult is it to shape a hull? 

Enough ruminations for now........ 

 

 

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Re: [hansman] What exactly is a displacement hull?

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Actually, one more thing - I have got lots of info and am much more clued up now (I understand the difference between planing and displacement hulls), but still wondering how each individual element of the design works/what it does and how they all combine together to make for a magic carpet ride? Most intriguing for me is the extra volume in the tail that causes the S-deck to form.

PS: I am looking out for "Naval Architecture of Planing Hulls", saw one on Amazon, heavy price tag, will keep looking

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hansman wrote:

Actually, one more thing - I have got lots of info and am much more clued up now (I understand the difference between planing and displacement hulls), but still wondering how each individual element of the design works/what it does and how they all combine together to make for a magic carpet ride? Most intriguing for me is the extra volume in the tail that causes the S-deck to form.

 

First off, John Mellor is correct as usual, a name is only a name; hulls plane and displace water, flat bottom boards plane and displace water. Consider the name "hull" to represent a certain kind of surboard design just like "fish" represents a certain surfboard design. Deal with it ;-)

You really can't divvie up the different design elements on a hull like you can on other boards because they only work together. Take away the pinched rail; the board won't rail turn, take away the s-deck; the board won't trim and the tail won't flex, take away the flex fin; the board won't rail turn and drive. Its all of those elements together that create that unique feel.  The whole is greater than the sum of it's parts...

I'm not sure what you mean about the added volume to the tail. Most hulls in the 7' range have really thin bladed tails. The volume is the minimum required to install the fin box. The s-deck, in my mind, is a way to keep as much float (foam) as possible in places where it does the most good. The tail is thin for flex, the nose is thin to reduce swing weight and accomodate the rail rocker. Where else can you store the foam...right in the middle. Greg Liddle's version has more foam than others because the design was intended to work in very small surf. In better conditions, you can get away with a bit less.

The distribution of foam is carefully designed not just for float. Trim is a huge part of the hull experience. Basically, the turning sweetspot is the same place as the trim sweetspot. That is achieved by moving the foam around (foiling) so the board balances with the rider in the exact place where the rocker and bottom contour work best for turning. You can adjust the foil and hull location fore and aft to make the board surf differently for different surfers and conditions without losing the basic appeal of the design.

The outline can also be used to adjust the sweetspot but more , it is used to design drive and turning radius. The more foreward the wide spot; the more drive and long the turning radius. The further aft; the shorter the turning radius.

If this all sounds like religious raving, one could go on the same way about thrusters and fish or neuevo olos. The hull isn't for everyone. Hell, I even go through a WTF stage when I jump back on mine after riding fish or thrusters. But once I get my hull legs back, the magic happens.

 

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Hi Lee -

I'm wrong far more often than you think. That said, I'll take each issue on it's own merits for the sake of discussion...

"You really can't divvie up the different design elements on a hull like you can on other boards because they only work together."

FALSE - You really can't isolate the various design elements of any board because they all work together on all them.

"Take away the pinched rail; the board won't rail turn"

FALSE - At least in the sense that they don't have to be to the extent that most of those boards about which the hullophiles rave.  In the hull videos I've seen, it sometimes seems as if the rail is buried too far and results in a bogged down turn.  This may also be the result of a twisted up fin creating a stall effect (see below.)

"take away the s-deck; the board won't trim and the tail won't flex"

FALSE - Most boards will trim and most boards, even Surftechs, flex - even in the tail.  There are lots of ways to control and isolate flex.  The "S-Deck" concept is one that escapes me.  It takes more for me to buy into it than another confirmed hullophile saying "Oh yeah baby, that makes SUCH a difference!"  I have a Surftech Yater in my backyard right now that I've been testing.  Guess what.... it flexes quite a bit under fairly light pressure.  I no longer buy the anti-Surftech "no-flex/too stiff" hype but that's a whole other issue.

"take away the flex fin; the board won't rail turn and drive"

FALSE - In fact, flex fins "spill" the power and negatively affect a board's drive.   What's actually happening is the fin while bent is slowing the board down.  As it straightens, the board regains some of iit's original speed giving the illusion of "snap."  A flex fin might better be described as a stalling device more often than not.

"Its all of those elements together that create that unique feel.  The whole is greater than the sum of it's parts..."

TRUE - No doubt all of those elements create that "unique feel."   Like most cults, this all must be taken with some degree of faith that it comes together as described.  At this point, I'm still not drinking the Kool-aid but my comments are only posted for the sake of discussion.  It would be perfectly agreeable to me if somebody can prove me wrong with something other than the usual hullophile babble about some sort of special "feel" that only the properly initiated can perceive.

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Re: [johnmellor] What exactly is a displacement hull?

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Yo John,

And will all due respect --

 

Here's my take on a few your points above, I may be right, I may be wrong. Who knows, but this is what experience tells me.

S Decks: Clarification -- generally S Deck refers to scooping out the nose portion of the deck. All things being equal if the tail is realitively thick is will flex less than a thinner one. It seems to me that tail flex is more directly related to the board's foil and its thickness in the aft half of the board than anything else.

Fin Flex: Stiff fins kill hull performance. I've put fins on more than one hull. I put some real powerful ones on and the board lost it's responsiveness. The one real eye opening success that comes to mind is a 9.5" Stage IV that's on a 6'2" hull. I started with the foil a little on the stiff side and the surfer asked me to refoil it and give it a little more twang. I did.  He liked it better more flexible because the board was more responsive and had better engagment through the turning arc and would break in direction more smoothly. Certainly, too much flex spills power and creats a stalling moment when you least  need it. Too little is fine for the momentary push but it kills the boards ability to drive through the whole arc of the turn.

Finally, and unerringly, the whole is always greater than the sum of it's parts, but sometimes the whole can be very disappointing and changing one part can make all the difference.

 

Hamlet: Why, then, 'tis none to you; for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so:

Stay Stoked, Rich

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Hi Lee -

I'm wrong far more often than you think. That said, I'll take each issue on it's own merits for the sake of discussion...

"You really can't divvie up the different design elements on a hull like you can on other boards because they only work together."

FALSE - You really can't isolate the various design elements of any board because they all work together on all them.

Response - Agree but it is more exaggerated on a hull. You eliminate any one of the design elements and the fuckers don't feel nearly the same but you can change a single aspect of a thruster and they still feel pretty much the same; because that design is reliant on the fins

"Take away the pinched rail; the board won't rail turn"

FALSE - At least in the sense that they don't have to be to the extent that most of those boards about which the hullophiles rave. In the hull videos I've seen, it sometimes seems as if the rail is buried too far and results in a bogged down turn. This may also be the result of a twisted up fin creating a stall effect (see below.)

Response - Disagree?...The bogging, I bet, this is more the result of too thin a rail (which you note) or operator error. If you thicken up the rail you just can't keep it on edge as long. The flex fin helps keep the rail in...they work together...its a miracle!

"take away the s-deck; the board won't trim and the tail won't flex"

FALSE - Most boards will trim and most boards, even Surftechs, flex - even in the tail. There are lots of ways to control and isolate flex. The "S-Deck" concept is one that escapes me. It takes more for me to buy into it than another confirmed hullophile saying "Oh yeah baby, that makes SUCH a difference!" I have a Surftech Yater in my backyard right now that I've been testing. Guess what.... it flexes quite a bit under fairly light pressure. I no longer buy the anti-Surftech "no-flex/too stiff" hype but that's a whole other issue.

Response -I should have added "...as well." The s-deck helps you put the trim spot on the turning sweet spot. The thinned out tail (any thinned out tail) will flex but if you add a half an inch to a Liddle tail, you will definately feel the board die. The way the foam is distributed controls the flex (as you know) but if you want the float for small waves and a ultra thin tail for a certain flex characteristic then it's gonna look like a Liddle.

"take away the flex fin; the board won't rail turn and drive"

FALSE - In fact, flex fins "spill" the power and negatively affect a board's drive. What's actually happening is the fin while bent is slowing the board down. As it straightens, the board regains some of iit's original speed giving the illusion of "snap." A flex fin might better be described as a stalling device more often than not.

Response -Disagree...personal experience...its a miracle! I do agree that snap is an illusion. I defer all flex fin shit to others...I'm an idiot.

"Its all of those elements together that create that unique feel. The whole is greater than the sum of it's parts..."

TRUE - No doubt all of those elements create that "unique feel." Like most cults, this all must be taken with some degree of faith that it comes together as described. At this point, I'm still not drinking the Kool-aid but my comments are only posted for the sake of discussion. It would be perfectly agreeable to me if somebody can prove me wrong with something other than the usual hullophile babble about some sort of special "feel" that only the properly initiated can perceive.

Response -Its all personal I guess...I love the way I can jam a bottom turn on a big wave with a thruster...nothing like feeling those g's and just rocketing up and over or around a section with confidence. I don't feel that on a hull. I love the instant acceleration of a fish or those big wrap around cutbacks. I love pumping up the speed. Don't get that on a hull either.

A hull smoothes out all the bumps, you don't do the work. You just get the fucker going then roll it up and...and...it's like a drug. Just cause someone else can't feel it doesn't mean its not there. The fact that there are quite a few folks that do feel it tells me that it is there. Its just a different trip. A lot of folks like Pink Floyd...what's up with THAT!

I don't believe I've ever started a thread about hulls after my initial hull rebirth when I first discovered Sways years ago. I try not to spread the disease but I will certainly talk about it to people that ask. I can understand the eyes rolling and the "koolaid" aspects of the whole deal. Sometimes it seems the epitome of cool to rant about hulls on Sways. But I think Kirk, Matt and I have always pushed the "...its a fucking
surfboard..." theory. Its either fun for you or not. No big deal. If
the boards are slow spin machines for someone, then they are not fun
and they should ride something else. I never knock someone elses ride
of choice (unless its 11 feet long and 4 inches thick!).
But as someone noted, there are how many people at Sways and less than 10 that particiapte in the hull discussions.

I like my hull and I ride it about 10-20 percent of the time. Part of the attraction is the subtleness of the shape. I'm a hack but I can churn fish and thrusters that work fine. A hull...not even close.

What's really funny is this whole thread is authored by a limey that can't find one in the UK...guess where Kirk Putnam is? England!

Your Brotha

Lee

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The two of you going back and forth on this subject is just the best. And I don't mean like snipey shitty.  Really good. You guys are good.

Two classics here, hansman, take note. Search some of their boards in the Resources section too. CLASSIC Swaylocks. Anyone who says this place isn't as good as it used to be probably just isn't following these two posters around like they should.

 

 

I still want comment on the planes evident in the good hulls.  I think I see tri-plane separation as opposed to Coanda attachment in some of the TSJ bottom turn pics, and it seems like Dirt's checkered board had a tri-plane from that.  I see Marc Andreini shaping a hull with the tri-plane very evident in the first stages... etc etc

can someone (Lee?) talk about this, and how the flats on these boards make them work?

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Re: [janklow] What exactly is a displacement hull?

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Greg

I don't think Steve's boards had tri-plane bottoms.  Just a flatter hull.  But I'm not certain of that.  I noticed the same thing in TSJ's picture of Marc.  I think that you are just seeing the shaping process.  He uses the Skill to get it to a tri-plane then blend the angles away.

Merrick did tri-plane bottoms during early thruster days and a lot of Wilderness' (Cundith's and Bob's) had steep tri-plane bottoms derived from Greenough's edge bottom boards. 

Sorry, that's all I gots.

 

 

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Re: [LeeV] What exactly is a displacement hull?

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Lee - You know I love you like a brother.  It's all in fun!

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Absolutely!  Its surfboards; what's more fun than that?

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Re: [janklow] What exactly is a displacement hull?

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janklow wrote:

The two of you going back and forth on this subject is just the best. And I don't mean like snipey shitty.  Really good. You guys are good.

Two classics here, hansman, take note. Search some of their boards in the Resources section too. CLASSIC Swaylocks. Anyone who says this place isn't as good as it used to be probably just isn't following these two posters around like they should.

 

 

I still want comment on the planes evident in the good hulls.  I think I see tri-plane separation as opposed to Coanda attachment in some of the TSJ bottom turn pics, and it seems like Dirt's checkered board had a tri-plane from that.  I see Marc Andreini shaping a hull with the tri-plane very evident in the first stages... etc etc

can someone (Lee?) talk about this, and how the flats on these boards make them work?

Tri-plane? Coanda attachment?

Pray tell?

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Re: [LeeV] What exactly is a displacement hull?

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Hi Lee

What's really funny is this whole thread is authored by a limey that can't find one in the UK...guess where Kirk Putnam is? England!

I'm only a temporary Limey! Actually a South African living and working here, far from the sea but close to a laptop!

I started out on here trying to find out more about hulls, and all the info I had gleaned told me that the "source" was in the US. I have since made contact with Tim at http://www.perfecttrim.co.uk. Michael from Norfolk had a Liddle and Andreini advertised for sale on Swaylocks and mentioned Tim. I have sent him an e-mail and I'm waiting to hear from him again. The boards on the above link looks very sweet!  Any comments?

I am a bit torn about getting a Liddle imported or getting a board from Tim here. I have given up on the idea of getting my man back home to have a go. Riding a hull sounds difficult enough as it is and most of my homebreaks are on my backhand (apparently ouch) so I want to get a board that will have a good chance of showing me the magic.

I have 2 shortboards here, one I just bought recently (impulse/boredom), but I am thinking both of them will have to go to support my new change in surfing thinking. Boards in SA are MUCH cheaper so I have started saving. I know though that I am buying a board for life, as it will slot into an eclectic quiver of older and newer and probably wont be surfed all the time (hhmmmmmm), so I am not bothered that much about spending more.

Does weight matter much on hulls, because I'm thinking heavier glassing for a stronger more durable board.

I agree 100% with the opinions voiced that all types/designs of boards have something different to offer the rider. Surfing a fish in heaving 8ft reefbreak or or 7'2" round-pin single-fin gun in 2ft peelers have been memorable sessions, as have screaming sessions on a 6'6" round-tail mini-gun at that cliched point break a few hours up the coast, and.......

Every boards' got its bit of magic or mojo, it's just up to the surfer to try and find it, in the board and/or themselves, BUT some are more magic than others.

I love watching the older long-time locals surf the aforementioned point break - they don't do much, and when I was younger I thought they had too much aggro/attitude in the water for the quality of their surfing. Then I started watching more closely, and what they are after is a line and "striking a pose" in critical places. One of my favourites is how a few of them mananage to cruise along the top of the wave, right under/next to the lip, looking over the back and flicking their hair in the updraft - ultimate composure and coolness in a very critical position.

Kelly Slater on a door, little African kids on bits of wood, Indonesians on half-boards with fins stuck through them - they're all stoked!

I love all boards, but I believe that a hull will challenge me and challenge all that I have learned, and if I can adapt and at the same time just let go, then I am in line for some serious new wave riding experiences.

I have googled Kirk Putnam - tell me more please? Especially as he is in the same country?!

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What's with the Simmons inspired mini-boards that are way short but then have a hull built into the design? Look like super fun skating devices.

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Re: [hansman] What exactly is a displacement hull?

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The Perfect Trim site looks like they've got everything you might need.  It would be worth the effort to see any of those boards in person and talk to Tim about what might work for you. 

The minisimmons are a whole different tack on the hull deal.  Haven't ridden one so I can't comment.

Kirk Putnam is a major domo in the Hull World and he is in Hull, England (of all places) to attend his son's wedding.  The coincidence of all this is...well...eerie.  He distributes Greg Liddle's boards here in the States and has been surfing hulls for...ever.  And mostly backside I might add.

Hope the "limey" thing wasn't offensive...me trying to be clever.

Dennis Ryder's blog is killer and the movie and description are right on.

Good luck on your quest!

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Re: [LeeV] What exactly is a displacement hull?

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Thanks Lee!

Tim is in Gloucestershire, which is also the home of the Severn Bore, so I might head up there for the next big tides and go surf up the river again and check his boards out.

No offense taken at all with the limey thing, I am starting to feel like one myself (and with sailing boats and sailors and scurvy and HULLS, just got it).

I'm sure i've come across an article by/about Kirk at some stage. Doesn't he have a garage full of boards? Old TSJ maybe?

I just looked at the "Displacement" article from the latest issue of TSJ again, but it doesn't give that much away - I actually perceived it more as a work of art than an article about a type of board design. Thought provoking none the less.

 

 

 

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Re: [hansman] What exactly is a displacement hull?

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...hello Hansman, I think you just got almost all

the guys told you everything, now you found a shop with the boards...

now you need to go and buy the board and have/grow  "miles" in the water

there is the only way to know about a design

not in front of a comp

 

I can add that a design with 50/50 s pinched rails among other stuff, is not intended for mushy, short period waves

if that is the waves you ll ride, better spend the money in other design

 

well, then reports back here your experience with the board

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