White Hot Foam bites the dust

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White Hot Foam bites the dust

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I called and confirmed that White Hot Foam (a division of Prowall) is now defunct.

U.S. Blanks offers a full line of high grade EPS foam as do other sources depending upon the area you live in. USB bought Austin Foam sometime back. They can cut from block using their catalog blanks, and also have some preformed blanks that are available. Visit their website for more information.

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deadshaper wrote:

I called and confirmed that White Hot Foam (a division of Prowall) is now defunct.

U.S. Blanks offers a full line of high grade EPS foam as do other sources depending upon the area you live in. USB bought Austin Foam sometime back. They can cut from block using their catalog blanks, and also have some preformed blanks that are available. Visit their website for more information.

The thing I like about USB is their EPS is Machine Friendly. Also the service is amazing. If you can't meet a delivery date whats the point?

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Hey Fellas, They never really got the whole thing going. They have the manufacturing of billets down, located in Az. but never got the blank side going. If you remember, the crew from laboratories of lower technology scored many blanks at a discount. The warehouse is in Oxnard Ca. and is a building materials yard. They had a stock of foam pre-cut or in billet form and were bought out very early in the process, so they liquidated the inventory on hand. I scored a 2# billet 16 feet long by 3 feet wide by 18 inches thick for $40.00! Don't know if there is any left in the warehouse, but Steve Padilla is the guy to talk to. He's very cool and easy to deal with. He helps run Great Pacific Building Materials on Lombard St. in Oxnard. They still have access to the billets from Az. because they use it in building as well. Just to clarify.

ps. Good foam quality.

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Bring me down a couple of billets and I will cuts some boards for free.

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S'Ding I'll check with Steve. It may be all gone by now. This happened a couple of months ago. I'm planning at least one lay down paddle board. Haven't got to it yet. Got lots of good advice from Spencer and his build thread for the Catalina Classic. Thanks for the generous offer. It ain't easy moving that mother by yourself! Almost cracked an egg moving it into the garage.

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t........... yes, they had a final sale of inventory last month..... Daron Story had called me to see if I wanted to grab anything. When I called and emailed I kept getting a "not available recording" so I finally just confirmed this with the Great Western/Prowall office person.


The "Surf Specific" stuff they were doing shapes really well and they were well stocked. "SS" involved a secondary process that made it crisper and wasn't the same stuff as standard builder's grade EPS. I guess it just didn't turn over enough for a big comany like that to bother with it. We had discussed my designing some new blank designs for them, but such is life.


 Jeff Holtby gave me the low down on their material and capabilities at USB, and their delivery is very reliable. They have some preformed blanks designed by Yater, and the ability to cut from block any of the blanks currently in their catalogue. They have very reliable delivery, so this becomes a very viable option for many builders. I have no doubt they are (or have the ability) to stock an East Coast distributor. Of course there are other options like Segway if that is your preference. Somebody mentioned that Insulfoam can produce a better grade EPS for surfboard production, but I haven't done anyhing with them since the 80's windsurfing boom.


The EPS makes total sense to me for the vac baggers and  SUP builders, just as I found it did for slalom sailboards..... but you still have DIY guys out there buying crap EPS from Lowe's or Home Depot or wherever too. IMHO, I just don't see why someone would want to build a big heavy SUP out of PUPE. Don't get me wrong, the guys at USB and Surfblanks are doing incredible new stuff that I use and swear by...... I just don't see it for behemoth designs.


The age old negative for EPS is water invasion, for PUPE it's denting.


Funny business this industry. As it stands, I've still got a couple hundred EPS blanks from Surfding's downsizing a couple years ago. I'm reseaching and experimenting with ways to shape, then apply a material that will penetrate, then expand while sealing the EPS air space/fusion to prevent water from being drawn in when dinged. Surf Tech has got the EPS as shown on their You Tube "does your foam suck"? clip..... I'm seeking to do that.


Of course I'm keeping this one under wraps.

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That's right you have Spencer @ IShapes in Ventura. He a good guy to work with.

I would love to get some of those billets however for vacuum bagging I like the 1.5 pound.

SUP's are so big it's better to target a lower weight.

Great deal. If I got some I would have to hot wire them on the spot and put them away as blanks due to minimum space.

You guys up north get all the deals!

Kind regards,

Surfding

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Yeah S'Ding, great deal. S. Kellog is here and have bought Walker blanks off him a while ago at his older shop on Front St. Good guy. The Spencer I referred to is another guy on this site and made/paddled a board in the last race from Catalina. Also a very nice guy and incredibly helpful.

ps. You might be able to go straight to Prowall for billets. DS., I didn't miss the inference......good one.

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Re: [tblank] White Hot Foam bites the dust

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The inference? 


R U talking about "under wraps" or something that's gone over my head?


If it was under wraps, I don't mean that literally or as a pun.


?

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No, The name posting. TBlank=T.........

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White Hot........... R.I.P

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This is a portion of the foam I p/u from Surfding for around 8 cents on the dollar. He got one of my Clark Hitachi's outta the deal as he buffed me out with a lot of foam, milled stringers, and other goodies. My wife isn't too happy my "new warehouse" includes our cabana by the pool.

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Dead that Clark F30 is like brand new after Jeff at US Blanks tuned it up with new brushes and blades.

Better than a Skil 100 and way more powerful. However they are so hard to come by.

The foam you scored for $0.08 on the dollar was a good score I wish I had the storage I once had before down sizing I was able to write it off on my taxable income so you got a good deal and I came out OK in the end. I did make some really light boards with that foam. I think that stuff was 1.7 density?

Sorry if I upset your wife! Looks like you need to crank out a bunch of boards and clear out your Cabana. My garage including my storage unit is full of woodworking equipment. Hard to let things go.

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That what friends are for. Those blanks will make some very strong light sticks, all in due time. They paid for themselves in the first 3 weeks of having them. The rest is phat.......

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Looking back on all that foam I had and what you got was only a small token of what I started with. (75' wall x 30' ceiling all blanks)

I remember making 25 blanks a day. My woodworking equipement was running everynight making stringers for glue ups.

Guys using a light dimmer to cut out there Home Cheapo Blanks with Ni-Crome wire telling me I don't need a variac just makes me cringe.

Building blanks for a business is not a good business unless you own the market.

Build boards not blanks.

I buy them now.

Pick and choose your battles!

Our old web site is still running: www.americansurfindustries.com I just don't make stringers or blanks anymore.

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S'Ding, DO NOT sell your woodworking tools!!! If you do I can almost guarantee you'd be sorry. And as far as the wife goes, they are for fixing up the house.

ps. If you do....CALL ME!!!

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Surfding,

What was the final result on the testing you were doing a while back PU vs. EPS?  For your standard thruster, which do you like better?

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From a manufacturing perspective PU/POLY is a no brainer


One the other hand EPOXY boards are slow in production plus thay cost a lot more to build


 


Customer wise I get 20 POLY orders to everyone EPS/EPOXY order


My son loved the EPS for Glassy days but perferes PU if there is any wind on it.


He has 29 PU boards and 1 EPS in his quiver


I like EPS personally

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For the EPS vs. Poly,  Do you change anything in the shape to compensate?  Thinner or narrower for one over the other?  Or are the conditions to be ridden in the compensation? 

In my limited comparisons, EPS rides higher in the water.  Makes EPS paddle in flat water faster, but sometimes gravity is helpful in pulling a little more mass of the PU down the wave face.

And thanks for all the testing you did on it, and your willingness to share.

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Everysurfer:

A little over 6 years ago when I started doing boards in XPS and EPS (other than PU) I was making them 1/8" thinner than someones standard PU.

However since the flotation was close to equal (after volume adjustments) there was no real advantage to doing than. When I would do a direct duplication of the board shape from PU to EPS: 24 Liters EPS verses 24 Liter PU there was less transition between surfing the two boards. The feedback's were more positive I think because it gave an advantage to the surfer: (Paddle power and a Lighter livelier board than PU). The theory of adjusting volume to compensate flotation differentials I can understand however then what is the point of the added cost and a slower production rate by choosing this type of build? Plus really tuned surfers don't like to vary rail volumes to much. It can throw you off. After the Train Wreck of the EPS/PU Tread we had going I when on to build more comparisons and had some really good feed back from Pros. However since the tread was locked I just quit posting.

I have a TEAM rider that has been a PRO surfer since his teens that is now in his 30's and a full Surf Nazi we have done some extensive testing and model development since the Yellow PU - EPS tread. Rather than looking at companies products and service we just based our own research on materials and not vendors. Less political plus we wanted focus on surfing and board building.

We had a blast playing with the different materials. With the model creation going on during this same time it made for some real interesting data collection. Our testing grounds were "LOWERS" (Trestles) down in San Clemente, California and "GREEN BUSH" Metawais INDO.

During our equipment exploration we found some interesting principles to apply to High Performance Surfing. My interest in EPS was reborn. By making such a large quiver of boards as we did:

10 x HPSBs shortboards  all the same volume comparatively between the various models we worked on. The only difference was the rocker changes. If we made a rocker change in a PU a EPS version was made. We explored various rail volumes and profiles. The Journey was so cool and informative. The Data we were gathering was thought provoking and coming at a us like a locomotive. Without boring you with the details we found that EPS is a must for one's quiver. Lowers on a EPS step-down HPSB is crazy fun if you like surfing. Step-downs are new category of boards that are in currently in vogue at the moment. Center point forward, hidden volume, increased outline. I have a formula to adjust the volume on these step-downs that has worked every time we have applied it. Getting back to the EPS material as the core. These Step-downs are a perfect match for the lighter build. We used RR Epoxy KK and Molded EPS (We used Marko and US both). Now that we have the formula worked out on the shape for 2011 we are also going to wrap it in a "SPACE SUIT". The core is a combination of Materials thrown in a Vacuum bag with some special fabrics. We are approaching this whole thing like a good set of golf clubs were you need more than one board. 

To answer you original question:

For the EPS vs. Poly,  Do you change anything in the shape to
compensate?  Thinner or narrower for one over the other?  Or are the
conditions to be ridden in the compensation?

I make EPS boards exactly the same shape as for a PU. The key is to let the material speak for it's self and yes conditions are the key factor when choosing what board to ride. Show up to Lowers with two exact boards with material being the only difference and choose your ride base on the current conditions.

In my limited comparisons, EPS rides higher in the water.  Makes EPS
paddle in flat water faster, but sometimes gravity is helpful in pulling
a little more mass of the PU down the wave face.

Very true we find the same thing. The key is to play on those factors and use them to your advantage. In some conditions you want the inertia you get from PU to put you down the face. Other times to kind of free fall and float over the sections EPS is great for that.

Tom Resvan EPS LOWERS Session Stepdown:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNn5wyetBPc&NR=1

Bruce,

"Sorry for the Hi-Jack"

Michael

"Surfding"

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Wow!

Thanks for the insight!  Your boards look like they ride beautifully.

Surfding for "Shaper of the Year"!

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Here's more R&D that was done since April:

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SD aka Mike...... now worries about the 'jacking' of this thread.


EPS - inertia - differential comparison of poly vs eps.......  here is somethig to ponder.


While the inertia of an EPS board will feel less due to the overall distribution of weight compared to a PUPE, core, there exists a huge opportunity for creative designers to use strategic postioning and choices of weighting EPS (as well as PUPE for that matter) to achieve dynamic results.


I'vd done this many times since the 70's, and you would be amazed at the result(s) you can get in the difference from 1 to 6 oz's.


C YA

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Wilson has been doing a Perimeter Weighting System on their tennis racquets.  It gives stability on off center hits by adding weight at the three and nine o'clock position. 

Interesting concept of adding a little lead tape at the rails.

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DS aka Bruce: Let me know where you put you weights and placement? How much?

That one area I haven't played with yet. I know Stretch (Bill) does it with his Guns for Mavericks and Puerto.

Thanks,

Surfding

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I started playing with this around 1970 by positioning them on the deck about 1" to 2" back form the nose. I pounded out lead fishing weights from 1 to 6 oz's and found the 2nd half my turns had longer arcs. This worked great for boards that felt a bit undergunned on macking days at Jalama, Razorblades or Rincon.


Later on I tried moving the weight concerntration back from the nose but kept the postion on the deck. What I term "pendulum effect" was considerably less as well as the ability to 'throw' a turn. It helps to think of it like a ball and chain... the longer the chain with the ball on the end of it and you really get a hurtling mass going along.


I then tried deck positioned assymetrical places for frontside and backside applications with various results.


Finally I decided to lower the center of gravity by placing the weight(s) under the bottom skin of the boards. This produced a noticeable sense of stability while still producing the lengthened arcs, increased inertia and subsequent momentum while hurtling down the line of hard to make sections...... like getting around the corner at Rincon to make it to the sea wall.


I'm sure Bill (Stretch) has his own specific applications that Fletcher and some of his other riders are finiding noteworthy.


I just kind of laugh when I have certain riders and/or customers that say they "can't feel" an EPS cored board because they are too light. As I previously suggested, the application of physics with this approach works both with PUPE and EPS. I did them with both, but the effects were more noticeable to me with the EPS cores because the construction weight is more evenly distributed throughout the skin of EPS boards versus PUPE's.


People could debate that a 2 lb. density is a 2lb density regardless of the type of core......... that the feel would be virtually the same. It is not. Just ride them, and you will know.


"Nothing is good nor bad, thinking merely makes it so"............ Shakespeare

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deadshaper wrote:


I started playing with this around 1970 by positioning them on the deck about 1" to 2" back form the nose. I pounded out lead fishing weights from 1 to 6 oz's and found the 2nd half my turns had longer arcs. This worked great for boards that felt a bit undergunned on macking days at Jalama, Razorblades or Rincon.


Later on I tried moving the weight concerntration back from the nose but kept the postion on the deck. What I term "pendulum effect" was considerably less as well as the ability to 'throw' a turn. It helps to think of it like a ball and chain... the longer the chain with the ball on the end of it and you really get a hurtling mass going along.


I then tried deck positioned assymetrical places for frontside and backside applications with various results.


Finally I decided to lower the center of gravity by placing the weight(s) under the bottom skin of the boards. This produced a noticeable sense of stability while still producing the lengthened arcs, increased inertia and subsequent momentum while hurtling down the line of hard to make sections...... like getting around the corner at Rincon to make it to the sea wall.


I'm sure Bill (Stretch) has his own specific applications that Fletcher and some of his other riders are finiding noteworthy.


I just kind of laugh when I have certain riders and/or customers that say they "can't feel" an EPS cored board because they are too light. As I previously suggested, the application of physics with this approach works both with PUPE and EPS. I did them with both, but the effects were more noticeable to me with the EPS cores because the construction weight is more evenly distributed throughout the skin of EPS boards versus PUPE's.


People could debate that a 2 lb. density is a 2lb density regardless of the type of core......... that the feel would be virtually the same. It is not. Just ride them, and you will know.


"Nothing is good nor bad, thinking merely makes it so"............ Shakespeare


Interesting tangent D/S . I do a similar thing with wood , but only for overall balance with heavier fins or fin systems ( or tails) . Moving liquid internal ballast is similar in principal , but I think its more for the open ocean guys that do long distance. Not sure if it has any virtue with surfboards...maybe for the big-wave chargers ?...one things for sure , when you get down to sub 5lb H/P boards , everything  little thing has a magnified effect ! .....

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It seems right now their is a renaissance in exploring all things past and present......... and even futuristic in surfboards. 

I can't help but feel that is both positive and productive in the sense of avoiding stagnation in how the general mass of surfers choose to ride waves.

As a designer, I love the options in new materials, and the ultimate end results I get from exploring all the available materials. 

I was once told "it's the getting a new board that makes you a lifer".

I think there is a high degree of truth to that statement.

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"And thanks for all the testing you did on it, and your willingness to share".  

                                                               Everysurfer.

Second that, Thanks heaps S'ding.

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You should be proud of your riders and your accomplishments; giving them the  equipment to get there.  Where or what is Aladdin?  I can't find out anything about the magazine.

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Joe Foster is a Graphic Artist for Canvas by KATIN in Surfside California he is also a Profession Photographer. He makes Aladdin Covers of the different Pro surfers in our OC circle. It's kind of a inside Spoof we have going.


Tom Rezvan calls my boards genie in a bottle.


I build boards for the LOVE and intrige.


Good surfers to shape for help in the inovation and delevopement of the Shaping craft.


Making Retro's I done and can do however making a good HPSB and dialing the Rocker, Thickness Foil, Rail Profile and Bottom Contours and blending it to one Harmonious Flow is the future of Shaping as we know it. This is the difference between off the rack and custom. Custom will keep board building alive in California and the rest of the surfing world for that matter. Using the various materials are this even more interesting. I could dwell in the back in the day attitude or move forward and see how far we can push surfing. I think the Kids are surfing better and better and even some of the 40 year olds are shreading.


Surfding is at a whole different level today than I was a kid. If I can still be a part of this progression in some small feedble way and enjoy the stoke I will.


 


kind regards,


 


Surfding

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